【Hacker News搬运】近200年后出土的肖邦华尔兹

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Title: A Chopin waltz unearthed after nearly 200 years

近200年后出土的肖邦华尔兹

Text:

Url: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/arts/music/chopin-waltz-discovery.html

很抱歉，作为一个AI，我无法直接访问外部链接或网页内容。因此，我无法阅读或分析您提供的《纽约时报》的文章链接。

不过，如果您能提供文章的内容摘要或关键信息，我可以帮助您进行抓取和分析，并将其翻译成中文。如果您有文章的具体段落或主题，也可以告诉我，我会尽力提供帮助。

Post by: perihelions

Comments:

plunderer: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/arts/music/chopin-waltz-discovery.html?unlocked_article_code=1.VU4.qMWU.WB258UGaseNu&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare" rel="nofollow">https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/arts/music/chopin-waltz-d...</a><a href="https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/10/15/127974_1_chopin-find-35399_wg_1080p.mp4" rel="nofollow">https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/10/15/127974_1_chopin-find-353...</a><a href="https://archive.is/tjk6Q" rel="nofollow">https://archive.is/tjk6Q</a>

plunderer: <a href=“https://www.nytimes.com 2024年10月27日艺术音乐肖邦华尔兹发现.html？unlocked_article_code=1.VU4.qMWU.WB258UGaseNu&amp；smid=nytcore ios share&amp；referringSource=articleShare”rel=“nofollow”>https:&#x2F；www.nytimes.com；2024年；10°F；27°；艺术；音乐；chopin-walls-d…</a><a href=“https://vp.nyt.com”视频2024年10月15日127974_1_chopin-find-35399_wg_1080p.mp4“rel=”nofollow“>https://&#x2F；vp.nyt.com；视频；2024年；10°F；15°F；127974_1_chopin-find-353…</a><a href=“https:”存档.是“tjk6Q”rel=“nofollow”>https:”&#x2F；archive.is；tjk6Q</a>

odyssey7: This is genuinely a good waltz.Sometimes, they will discover a lost piece by some known composer, and the media will pick it up. But imo, when you have a listen, it often turns out that the piece had been lost for a reason.What makes this waltz remarkable as a new discovery, in my opinion, is that it is more or less a finished work; the composition is so distinctively a work by Chopin; and the work brings something novel to the oeuvre.——As for the debut, I think someone involved could have been more thoughtful. It feels as if some people in NYC saw a chance to be the first to debut, and they ran with it. It was published in the NYTimes, with a New York-based pianist, with New York’s “Steinway Hall,” which reads like a product placement. Chopin wrote these intimate pieces for the acoustics of small, intimate settings, and for nothing like a modern Steinway concert grand piano.Maybe they could have instead worked with some local cultural organization in Poland, which could have made the debut a significant local cultural thing? Maybe taking the chance to promote an early-career pianist from Chopin’s homeland, rather than the career of a world-famous New Yorker?

odyssey7: 这确实是一首好华尔兹 有时，他们会发现一些知名作曲家丢失的作品，媒体会把它捡起来。但依我之见，当你听的时候，往往会发现这首曲子丢失是有原因的 在我看来，这首华尔兹之所以引人注目，是因为它或多或少是一部完成的作品；这首曲子是肖邦的独特作品；这部作品给作品带来了一些新奇的东西 ---至于首次亮相，我认为参与其中的人本可以考虑得更周到一些。感觉好像纽约的一些人看到了成为第一个首次亮相的机会，他们就抓住了这个机会。这篇文章发表在《纽约时报》上，由一位驻纽约的钢琴家和纽约的“施坦威音乐厅”共同发表，读起来像是植入广告。肖邦写这些亲密的作品是为了小而亲密的环境的声学效果，而不是为了现代施坦威音乐会的三角钢琴 也许他们可以与波兰的一些当地文化组织合作，这可能会使首次亮相成为当地文化的一件大事？也许是想借此机会提拔一位来自肖邦祖国的早期职业钢琴家，而不是一位世界著名的纽约人的职业生涯？

brilee: I transcribed the score, available here:<a href="https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/chopin_waltz_posthumous/" rel="nofollow">https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/chopin_waltz_posthumo...</a>

brilee: 我转录了乐谱，可以在这里找到：<a href=“https:”www.moderndescartes.com“essays”chopin_walls_posthumous“rel=”nofollow“>https:”&#x2F；www.moderndescares.com；散文&quot；肖邦华尔兹</一

cvoss: I've played many Chopin waltzes in my time, and have heard the full collection of 19 (18?) known waltzes many times. As everyone is saying, it sounds very much like Chopin.However, the article notes that it's unusually short, while still claiming it's complete. But beyond being short, to my ear it is simply thematically incomplete. It ends exactly at the moment that my ear expects the second theme, the B of an ABA form, to be introduced, possibly, though not necessarily in a new key. Here, we just have A twice. Where's the rest of it? Even the famously brief "Minute" waltz has room for an ABA form. It's essential for closure that we at least travel somewhere and probably come back again. This new one doesn't go anywhere, but simply ends. It ends lamely as such, but its ending would be perfectly appropriate as a transitional moment, leading to the next part.Anyone else disagree with the experts and think this waltz is incomplete?

cvoss: 我；在我的时代，我演奏了许多肖邦的华尔兹，并多次听过19首（18首？）已知华尔兹的全集。正如大家所说，这听起来很像肖邦 然而，文章指出；它异常短，但仍然声称它；s完成。但除了简短之外，在我看来，它在主题上是不完整的。它恰好在我的耳朵期待第二个主题，ABA形式的B，被引入的那一刻结束，可能，尽管不一定是在一个新的密钥中。在这里，我们只有两次A。其中：；剩下的呢？即使是著名的简短&quot；分钟&quot；华尔兹有ABA形式的空间；对于结束来说，我们至少要去某个地方旅行，并可能再次回来。这个新的不；我哪儿也不去，只是结束。它以这样的方式结束，但它的结束作为一个过渡时刻是非常合适的，这将导致下一部分 还有谁不同意专家的观点，认为这首华尔兹不完整吗？

alkyon: This is not about handwriting, the key thing is that this really sounds like Chopin - a true signature is there even if not written by hand.I can't recommend more Alan Walker's "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and Times", which I happen to be reading now.

alkyon: 这与手写无关，关键是这听起来真的很像肖邦——即使不是手写的，也有一个真正的签名 我可以；我不推荐更多Alan Walker；s&quot；肖邦：人生与时代；，我现在正好在读。